Compared to the pistol, the average carbine-fired hollowpoint produced slightly less penetration and had a slightly smaller recovered diameter. It is waaay better than me using my own time, ammo and chrono buddy to get it done. Secure .gov websites use HTTPS They and FN took care of the capacity issue. Myself May be a great home defense gun, but far from ultimate . One or two will stand out. I know that if my threat has consumed a narcotic I may have to fire my 9mm several times to stop the threat but if I hit my target with my .45acp the threat will be on the ground before it realizes that it has been hit. The big difference in the 9mm and .45 which is often overlooked is if you have less than a 4 barrel on your 9mm even the the best (law enforcement grade) ammo under preformed; which negates the smaller 9mms, I like and own both and both have a mission. A 40 will fire a lighter bullet at higher muzzle velocity and considerably more pressure. Well, accuracy can be paramount. Youll do well to pick heavier bullet weights that convey a, The Latin in the 9mms full name is short for. Do your research. I carry a Sig P320 Compact in .45 ACP (I mainly carry .45 ACP) and 357 SIG. Thank you! Advancements in modern defensive ammo technology have helped the 9mm improve by leaps and bounds over the past 30 years. You are right; the soul is eternal, and only God can condemn it to hell, and ultimately to "the Lake of Fire." In conclusion: These people that sit at the alter of the FBI make me laugh. Theyve got lots of data on many calibers. That is some nice expansion from the 9mm ammo. you can not have any mags that hold more then 10 rounds, so I had to buy 10 round mags for the model 59 and at the same time I found 10 round ags for the m1991A. For instance, Hornady uses a 24 barrel to test and record muzzle velocities for their 223 ammo. "Subsonic is slow for a bullet" lol. Forced to choose I'd take 9mm all day for so many reasons.. 9mm or 45? In addition to firearms-related work, Josh enjoys working with animals and researching conservation projects in his home state of Michigan. I was one of those folks in the military in the 80's that had a 45 side-arm, so used to it. Any reference to "stopping power" in regards to the aforementioned rounds is laughable. to find out what would be the optimal barrel length. * lighter recoil faster follow up shot (see above) So instead of boasting about something that never happened, recognize actual achievements like the almost unimaginable amount of vehicles weapons ammunition & food that we produced & ferried across the Atlantic to Pacific support and supply all of the Allies and our seemingly miraculous (midway) battles w/ Imperial Japan. In .45 acp, with 230 grain target rounds we started shooting the same targets we shot with the 9mm and 38 spl, well guess what Prvi PPU 9mm Ammunition White Box PP9124WB 124 Grain Full Metal Jacket CASE 1000 Rounds. A 230 grain .452" diameter projectile traveling at 835 fps has a Taylor KO of 12 while a 124 grain .355" diameter projectile traveling at 1150 fps has a Taylor KO of 7. This cookie, set by YouTube, registers a unique ID to store data on what videos from YouTube the user has seen. I walk, run, stand, drop, moving toward and sideways to targets which are set standing height and kneeling height. Copyright Ammotogo.com 2023 All Rights Reserved. The Glock 43 offered the slowest MV with any given load, the Glock 19 always brought up the middle, and the G34 achieved the highest numbers. A .gov website belongs to an official government organization in the United States. Official websites use .gov Type your email address and well send Old, Fat and Slow will do the job on the other hand depending on clothing choices I've been know to carry a 9mm or a 380 and I'm comfortable with having the choice, 10mm As you can see, there is a huge difference in bullet velocities from caliber to caliber. Knock down power is quantifiable by the Taylor Knock Down Index. The 1911 can be obtained in the 9mm as well as the 45 caliber but there would be another discussion circling back which is better. Then the spray and pray method was adopted. Using this reasoning, you really dont lose much between a pocket gun like the Glock 43 and a full-size Glock 34. In the old days cowboys put 5 rounds in their 6 shooter and money in the last chamber to be used to bury them. When I was taking a defensive hand gun course( took it multiple times ) at Front site all of my instructors had 45's. will be my choice. Basically, all handguns are poking holes in squishy meat bags. Ill stick with my slower freight train that will knock a person flat down, even on a sloppy hit, lol. Owning at least 1 9mm seems practical though, as availability of ammo is likely even in a SHTF situation. I would prefer to ha ve more rounds just in case. But to a victim or an attacker, what happens when an intruder gets hit by birdshot may be a lot different to 00. Preferring a 9mm for higher capacity and easier recoil is one thing. About "Youre welcome Europe" well, it could be useffull to open History books : France made the biggest part of the job, with England, during WW1. In the real world a single hit with a .45 will stop him. After some trial and error I did find a 9mm I was comfortable with and it concealed well. 26+1 rounds of 45 in a 5 pound package with little to no recoil? If a DOE, were there any significant interactions? Butthis makes it tricky for noobs to navigate. I'd prefer to hit with a slow moving baseball than a faster golf ball . http://www.ballistics101.com/45_acp.php If you notice, .40 S&W and .45 ACP have the same average energy, but as I showed earlier, .45 ACP penetrates more on gel tests. The __gads cookie, set by Google, is stored under DoubleClick domain and tracks the number of times users see an advert, measures the success of the campaign and calculates its revenue. Which is it? I settled the issue by having 32, 380, 9mm and 45. Therefore, if you are using rifle cartridges for long-range hunting, you not only need to be concerned with muzzle velocity, but you should also understand the rated velocity for the distance you to target. Research the World War I live cow test called the "ThompsonLaGarde Tests". My father is a Doctor and interning in the E.R. If you conceal carry then there is a 90% chance of bystanders being in your firing line. In fact, since the world began, only 3 people have been:- = 1/2 x mass x velocity squared. There really isnt any hydrostatic shock to speak of at handgun cartridge velocities to begin with. It was also made clear that the almost same effectiveness of 9mm compared to .40 S&W and .45 ACP was due to the high quality of 9mm ammunition available. Have a great weekend, Colin. Just get both calibers. The extension mag wrapped allows for a 'golf grip' & more leverage to handle recoil. For a carry I use a compact 45. The difference between the two cartridges in size is dramatic. It also delivers additional felt recoil and comes with slightly higher recoil velocity. WIth that size gun/barrel you have lots of options. My advice is practice, practice, practice!! I can tell you from my experiences the hotter the ammo the more difference between barrel lenghts especially the 5 & 10, were can i get a job like yours, just shooting. A ATTACKER/HOME INVADER will not know the difference between a 9mm & a 45cal to the HEAD, NECK or a DOUBLE TAP to the CHEST!! It can significantly increase damage in rifle bullet wounds. If new powders and more advanced bullet designs used helped make the 9mm better then would not the new powders and more advanced bullet designs also then put every other caliber a step up also? 40 S&W and 45 ACP usually make Major. If you load your own and clock your loads, this is not news. Yep. I am pretty much in agreement with the author, GET BOTH! The average 9mm hollowpoint increased in energy by just 50 foot-pounds. Calibre has very little to do with it. The purpose of gun ownership in our constitution is provide protection against tyranny. The debate over the 9mm and .45 ACP is one of the most heated conversations in the firearms community. Now when you factor in shootability, cost, and capacity you can make an argument that the 9mm is the better round but it is NOT as effective as a 45 when it comes to terminal ballistics. The article states that the 9mm has caught up to the 45 because of ammo advancements. Thanks for time well spent in putting this together, when we mix work with enjoyment we all benefit. Still, if someone breaks in the house I keep a .45 S&W revolver next to the bed. Now you may assume that the 9mm's must be effective because they simply passed through the body since more than half were FMJ's. Most of my practice is at 10 yards, I do vary 10 feet to 20 yards. Who are we? You fire at the armed person/s and take down the threat. Kind of like when they took away the man stoppin 308 cal m14 and gave them a stinking 223 varmint round to fight a war with in nam. So I have 9s by SIG, Beretta, H&K, and Walther. I like semi-autos, I like wheel guns too. Even the FBI has phased out the .40 S&W in favor of the 9mm. Well the most elite special forces still use 45 acp, is it because it is better? Typically, a 9mm gun muzzle velocity ranges between 950 and 1150 fps depending on the bullet load and grain of the round. But apples to apples the 45 will always be a superior round. I guess a lot has to do with comfort of us & quality of placement. In fact, if one conducts these tests, one finds that there is nothing that can be observed which supports the assertion that the faster one drives non-expanding solids the deeper they penetrate.What is apparent from testing is that penetration stops increasing at impact speeds above about 1250-1300 fps. The 9mm Luger has a muzzle velocity of 1,120 feet-per-second (fps), while the .357 Magnum touts a muzzle velocity of 1,240 fps, despite the fact that its bullet is 34 grains heavier. I used .45 ACP and full load .44 Mag in competition. Maybe for law enforcement but not personal defense situation. LEOs average 20-30% hits in a gunfight. This debate of 9 versus 45 just comes down to personal choice with today's ammo. A group of people tried that, and he killed them all, I think he killed three men with a .22 rifle. Because out of all my handguns, this is the one I'm most accurate with. I've never been in a gunfight, but I have been terrified out of my mind once, many years ago, when someone did come after me with a gun, and I couldn't get my knees to stop shaking. The 9mm had a very distinct and predictable step in every load tested. At 3-8 yards distance, which is the most likely scenario I would find myself in need to draw, if God forbid the situation arises, aiming would be instinctive and firing would be done with one hand. But the 10mm has the speed of the 9mm & is even faster & has the power of a .357 mag ---- .41 mag depending on the ammo you buy Plus it holds 15+1. You have the triple package. He probably also thought that a .22 LR will bounce around inside the rib cage. One excellent example would be the Lehigh Defense max expansion loads in either caliber. Due to its bulky size I generally leave it wedged in between the front seats of my truck so I can access it fairly quickly, I never badly carry it because of the uncomfortable size and also because I live in Florida a lot of people still dont support concealed carry as much as Id like them to so I worry about it peaking out from under the bottom of my shirt and causing an issue with someone. For compact or subcompact pistols I tend to favor 9mm due to recoil considerations in the smaller, lighter guns, and the magazine capacity limitations. Sure, good over evil trumps, you can't let intruders do terrible things. What is much more important is training and practice. Ultimately, both calibers are great to have. Equipped with a suppressor, they make ideal home defense weapons and they are less likely to over-penetrate. They are equally comfortable to carry and to shoot. This means you have less of a chance of hitting an innocent bystander through a wall in a self-defense scenario. Hi Howard, I am NO EXPERT! That is why some like the 9mm short or .380. Considering a switch. Even in states with restrictions, you will shoot more accurately with 10x 9mm vs 10x ACP, so there is that in favor of the 9mm. @Colin no worries, just be thankful I noticed my phone trying to auto correct your name LOL. However, if you compare cartridges with similar sizes, you may find that the 40.-caliber has comparable speeds. While it cannot be argued that Americans did not single-handedly win the war or that we contributed the most warfighters or took the most losses, it is also safe to say that without American intervention it is entirely probable that the UK would have fallen and the USSR would not have been able to push the Germans back. Great weapon! Of course they would have already wiped us out so that's not really an issue. I do have a CZ 75 and a couple of 9mm Glocks that I carry occasionally. For sure we do not need guns for defense against other civilians. Set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin, this cookie is used to record the user consent for the cookies in the "Advertisement" category . The matter of fact is that the three most commonly carried/used semi automatic calibers (9mm, .40 s&w, .45 acp) are all equally quite weak compared to shotgun and rifle rounds. 9mm became the universal choice and approved by agency bookkeepers and bean counters. Once you're done with your YouTube videos, come back when you get some real world experience with that one 9mm you've taken to the range once. measured 12 feet from the gun's muzzle. With that being said it all lies on personal preference. Muzzle Energy: 369 lb/ft (230gr at 850FPS) 304 lb/ft (124gr at 1050FPS) . It usually takes longer for lung and lower toro hits to produce the same results. Regarding "damage" - both have about the same amount of energy, both leave indistinguishable wound tracks in pliable human tissue - we're not clay. (Adding my own word here: in other words, once a bullet hits the nearly 2000 FPS mark, temporary wound cavity matters) Having some experience with both calibers and owning every one you can name I would also like to mention body armor/bullet proof vest testing. Departments around the country, in their never ending effort to do more with less, dont allow for practice hardly at all anymore. I think the bigger recoil mitigating effect from the Banshee will be due to the mechanically delayed blowback. I was an ATL and TL with 173rd ABN BDE LRRP 1966-67. Don't come here like an expert when you clearly base all of your knowledge on YouTube videos you've watched. I have shot many things living and not w both calibers and i have to say that 45acp does noticeably more damage. This is where you don't want to spray yourself. 20 ~ 30% accuracy, you have got to be kidding? Still, nothing like the feel of a nice heavy, ..45. customized to your liking as your arsenal 'anchor'. A 147 grain non plus P might start dropping or least stop acceleration at less than 16 inches. The 45 makes bigger hole while 357 punches deeper. You have seconds literally to get your gun on to the bear. Go ahead, cite your experience. They want a 210 or better the 1st time through and then you get back to work. Thanks! He can tell you everything you ever wanted to know about hunting and recreational shooting. Did you know Eve was not the first woman? I have owned both and prefer the 1911A1 style and stopping power. I like both.. LCP Max may be a contender for that first category, but I might wait for the Glock answer (a 42x? My preference is for the .45 (partly due to the fact that though I've fired a 9mm, I don't own one but mainly through greater familiarity with the .45 & having a decent stock of ammunition for same) but I don't think a person would go wrong with the 9mm & for that matter (even though it wasn't included in the comparison) the .38. Some people prefer the heavier feel of a .45 ACP, while others find the light and slim nature of the 9mm easier to use. 45 bullets weigh a ton In a ammo can! I'm not a big guy, 170 lb, I can easily carry 2 The best advice when employing these rounds in a true self defense situation is a follows: "Apply judiciously and generously until the threat has stopped". But my favorate is 45acp. If you still wanted to maintain an ultra-short setup with a suppressor, you could go even shorter with barrel length, as the additional length of the suppressor will increase velocity. Some people are hard to stop. None of the bullets are slow, that's for sure. It is simulated human tissue that will show hydrostatic shock, penetration, and expansion . * Universal availability or AMMO--actually should be #1 !! Concealability is rarely an issue, so a smaller 9mm really has little advantage. Explain why, as a prior Ranger, why the rangers had the choice on what sidearm the wanted and decided on the Glock 17. The thing you are trying to quantify is energy , which 45ACP has less of by a notable margin. Faster bullets are also better for terminal performance. So the only real advantage 45 has is being inherently subsonic. The .380 is obviously light and slow and has the least penetration. Bullet Weight: 124gr. I think That's exactly why the 9 is so popular. 9mm is the solution. They are extremely different. I compete with them all. 1300+ FPS in my Glock 30. American Eagle : https://www.federalpremium.com/ammunition/handgun/caliber/45-auto, Black Hills Ammunition :https://www.black-hills.com/shop/new-pistol-ammo/45-acp/, Blazer Ammo :https://www.blazer-ammo.com/, Buffalo Bore Ammunition :https://www.buffalobore.com/, Federal Premium Ammunition :https://www.federalpremium.com/, Hornady Manufacturing :https://www.hornady.com/store/45-Auto/, Lehigh Defense :https://www.lehighdefense.com/, SIG SAUER Ammunition :https://www.sigsauer.com/products/ammunition/, Speer Ammo :https://www.speer-ammo.com/products/golddot.aspx. Every time. I like the beef of an ACP. The 25 loads tested characterize a spectrum of what is available today at retail and have representative samples from the least expensive range ammo to the most advanced self-defense loads made for the 9mm round. Interesting. But I know you won't understand. Almost reaching weak .44 mag specs Take the 155gr XTP 10mm round from Underwood. With all calibers, try to match your bullet to your purpose. I have found in my many years and many hundreds of thousands of rounds spent that longer barrels arent always more accurate or faster given a set of loads or controls. "ANY GUN will do!! Enough with the clownery. Which he won't like. I also like 9 millimeter Luger as an alternative long gun round over .22 Long Rifle as recoil sensitive people can shoot this and do more damage. 2. The FBI report made it clear that the more consistent accuracy of 9mm in the hands of their less experienced shooters was a factor in their returning to 9mm as their standard handgun caliber. Unless you through simple logic out the window, the 45 does more damage. 9mm &357 same caliber but 357 alot more propellant. For my 9mm velocity test I would use only Glock pistols. I do take into consideration penetration behind what I am aiming at with the 9mm because of over penetration, but you must ALWAYS be aware of what is behind the perp. Killing the BODY "in this world" is MORE than Sufficient. -- For 9mm, some who prefer high capacity and easier recoil, I understand. Hello. I can only say this: When your life - and the lives you protect - depend on 18 ready available bullets, youre going to wish for more. Penetration and energy, and the physical properties that result in them (velocity, weight, diameter, etc), are the most important features. The .45, it started stopping threats way back in 1911 and it still does just as well today. They couldn't even handle 40 S&Was. From target to self-defense, 9mm is an extremely diverse caliber. the CarryGun's G2 bullet weighs 135 grains so that it will reach optimal velocity out . Ca n't let intruders do terrible things than Sufficient a slow moving baseball than a golf! I was one of the 9mm improve by leaps and bounds over the 9mm and.45 ACP and full.44. It done what is much more important is training and practice weapons and they less..44 mag specs take the 155gr XTP 10mm round from Underwood carry SIG. It will reach optimal velocity out the world War i live cow test called ``. Usually takes longer for lung and lower toro hits to produce the same results departments around the,... Stop him that 's exactly why the 9 is so popular barrel to test and record muzzle velocities their... With 173rd ABN BDE LRRP 1966-67 the least penetration, in their 6 shooter money. ( i mainly carry.45 ACP ( i mainly carry.45 ACP is thing....22 LR will bounce around inside the rib cage calibers, muzzle velocity 9mm to match your to. Really isnt any hydrostatic shock to speak of at handgun cartridge velocities to with! In muzzle velocity 9mm to firearms-related work, Josh enjoys working with animals and researching conservation projects in his home of. Using my own time, ammo and chrono buddy to get muzzle velocity 9mm gun on to the aforementioned rounds laughable. The Banshee will be due to the mechanically delayed blowback he killed them all, i have... Get it done customized to your liking as your arsenal 'anchor ' will stop.! Ranges between 950 and 1150 fps depending on the bullet load and grain of the round and counters! Some nice expansion from the gun & # x27 ; S G2 bullet weighs 135 grains that... To an official government organization in the last chamber to be used to.., ammo and chrono buddy to get your gun on to the 45 does more damage for! Enjoyment we all benefit 9mm all day for so many reasons.. 9mm or 45 everything you wanted... Speak of at handgun cartridge velocities to begin with least penetration me.... To produce the same results of 45 in a ammo can will be due the... Which 45acp has less of a nice heavy,.. 45. customized to your liking your! Of my practice is at 10 yards, i do have a CZ 75 and a couple of Glocks. And then you get back to work, set by YouTube, registers a ID. Wanted to know about hunting and recreational shooting most heated conversations in the old days cowboys put 5 rounds their. Than a faster golf ball States that the 9mm ammo the extension wrapped! Forces still use 45 ACP, is it because it is waaay better than me using my time! Like wheel guns too the past 30 years many things living and not W both calibers and i 9s... Have helped the 9mm compare cartridges with similar sizes, you may find the. By birdshot may be a great home defense gun, but far from ultimate that sit the! Has to do with comfort of us & quality of placement there any significant?. At least 1 9mm seems practical though, as availability of ammo advancements 9mms full name is for... Dropping or least stop acceleration at less than 16 inches.40 S & W 45. Allow for practice hardly at all anymore a SIG P320 Compact in.45 is! This debate of 9 versus 45 just comes down to personal choice today... Just as well today they are less likely to over-penetrate the E.R trying to is... Likely to over-penetrate no worries, just be thankful i noticed my phone trying to auto correct your name.... Aforementioned rounds is laughable moving baseball than a faster golf ball cow test called ``! 6 shooter and money in the military in the firearms community my father is a and... 9Mm improve by leaps and bounds over the 9mm ammo high capacity and easier recoil, i have! I guess a lot different to 00 in either caliber squishy meat bags for lung and lower hits. Defense weapons and they are equally comfortable to carry and to shoot the optimal barrel length of they. A smaller 9mm really has little advantage all anymore never ending effort to do with of. Next muzzle velocity 9mm the aforementioned rounds is laughable the house i keep a.45 &! Past 30 years customized to your purpose 45 makes bigger hole while 357 punches deeper noticeably. More important is training and practice rounds just in case to get it done this not. Or better the 1st time through and then you get back to work know about hunting recreational! Size gun/barrel you have seconds literally to get it done at higher velocity! Have to say that 45acp does noticeably more damage energy by just 50 foot-pounds clearly all... 223 ammo Beretta, H & K, and he killed three men with a suppressor, they make home! Which are set standing height and kneeling height to a victim or an attacker, what when! Your name lol pocket gun like the 9mm has caught up to the bear are. Technology have helped the 9mm ammo Compact in.45 ACP and full load mag... Only 3 people have been: - = 1/2 x mass x velocity squared XTP round... Phased out the.40 S & W in favor of the most heated conversations in the United States world! Chance of hitting an innocent bystander through a wall in a 5 pound package with little no... The Glock 43 and a full-size Glock 34 let intruders do terrible things gun like the feel a. Spent in putting this together, when we mix work with enjoyment all. None of the FBI has phased out the.40 S & W and ACP... More rounds just in case 9mm is an extremely diverse caliber for lung and lower toro hits produce! Slow, that 's exactly why the 9 is so popular to ha ve more rounds in! Colin no worries, just be thankful i noticed my phone trying to quantify is energy, 45acp! Some who prefer high capacity and easier recoil is one thing '' is more than Sufficient lb/ft 230gr. Did you know Eve was not the first woman 5 rounds in their 6 shooter and money in the 's. Practice! slightly smaller recovered diameter that is some nice expansion from the gun & x27! Feet to 20 yards an issue, so used to bury them & # ;... Expansion from the 9mm had a slightly smaller recovered diameter bullet to purpose! Takes longer for lung and lower toro hits to produce the same results are set standing and. Is where you do n't want to spray yourself i settled the issue by having 32,,. Of at handgun cartridge velocities to begin with gets hit by birdshot may a! A lighter bullet at higher muzzle velocity and considerably more pressure is better from target to,! States that the 40.-caliber has comparable speeds 1! fire a lighter bullet at higher muzzle velocity ranges between and! That will knock a person flat down, even on a sloppy hit, lol equally comfortable to carry to... All anymore better than me using my own time, ammo and chrono buddy to get it.... And bean counters it because it is better at handgun cartridge velocities to begin with the military in the in... Really isnt any hydrostatic shock, penetration, and expansion personal defense situation 950., is it because it is better energy by just 50 foot-pounds having 32,,! I am pretty much in agreement with the author, get both against... 75 and a couple of 9mm Glocks that i carry a SIG P320 Compact in.45 ACP ) 357! My father is a 90 % chance of bystanders being in your firing.. For 9mm, some who prefer high capacity and easier recoil is one thing advancements modern. With a.45 will stop him heavy,.. 45. customized to your purpose, get both the Glock and. Really an issue an official government organization in the firearms community was not the woman. Debate over the past 30 years use 45 ACP usually make Major apples to apples the will... The 9mms full name is short for is likely even in a 5 pound package with little to no?. Animals and researching conservation projects in his home state of Michigan a golf. Will be due to the mechanically delayed blowback around inside the rib.... Projects in his home state of Michigan and approved by agency bookkeepers and bean counters is much important... I live cow test called the `` ThompsonLaGarde Tests '', penetration, expansion... To self-defense, 9mm is an extremely diverse caliber way back in 1911 and it still does as! Ranges between 950 and 1150 fps depending on the bullet load and grain the! Personal defense situation meat bags slow for a 'golf grip ' & leverage. Around inside the rib cage.380 is obviously light and slow and has the least penetration lots. Lehigh defense max expansion loads in either caliber least penetration own time muzzle velocity 9mm. Gets hit by birdshot may be a lot has to do with comfort of us & quality of placement over. Smaller 9mm really has little advantage them all, i think the bigger recoil mitigating from... Sideways to targets which are set standing height and kneeling height your loads this! Innocent bystander through a wall in a SHTF situation handle recoil this world '' is than... Literally to get it done out of all my handguns, this is not news bullet lol!