I'm Jyn Odan the Smuggler. The campaign game pits the limitless troops and resources of the Galactic Empire against a crack team of elite Rebel operatives as they strive to break the Empires hold on the galaxy, while the skirmish game invites you and a friend to muster strike teams and battle head-to-head over conflicting objectives. Rebels take turns having activations. Idunn Ive been using since the unit launch. a Join the crew of the Ghost from Star Wars Rebels and fight against Grand Admiral . Enjoy having regular Imperial Assault youtube content to look forward to? Join the Imperial Assault skirmish community!Discord: https://discord.gg/vrCNGst4Slack: https://join.slack.com/t/zionsfinestia/shared_invite/zt-g832n02s-tjm6ni90iEZCg~~pt3bV1wIMPORTANT NOTICE: All videos produced for this channel are non-monetized and do not provide any ad revenue for me or this channel. Its also much easier to manage Alms HP for Galeforce with a Ninja Katana than it is for his exclusive weapon. any rate, I'm kinda surprised that Gideon is S+ 'cause everyone in our group hates playing as him. What are the metrics you have used to determine the values? Imperial Assault offers two separate game . Since I agree that Gideon is abysmal for fun and enjoyment. Each of these expansion pack adds skirmish and/or campaign missions, as well as new 28mm miniatures and cards. Up to four other players become heroes of the Rebel Alliance, engaging in covert operations to . It's briefing time. [Source] Onar is one of the best, a hero that early campaign can roll 3 red dice just spending 400 credits is a game changer. Three resources contribute to the sense of progression between missions. I mean, I guess he's effi By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. . Desperation and Brash Assault in Brave Alms B slot and sacred seal respectively allow Alm to Attack 4 times in a row before the foe can counterattack, regardless of his own Speed. @thinkbomb Reuploaded with fixed volume.Doing something a little different today, campaign content! Episode 10 (Oct. 2022) - Powercreep 2.0 is Here! While all three are awarded after every mission, the rewards for the side that reached their goal in the mission will receive more numerous rewards. Darth Vader (Attacker) (Unlock through Achievements) Bastila Shan (Fallen) (Support) (7-A Hard Dark Side) Sith Trooper (Attacker) (6-C Hard Dark Side) Sith teams are hard to build in early levels . The OP ran a poll asking people to assign each hero a grade and got hundreds of responses. My solution was to make him roll his defense die more often Brave Alms refine gives him a hefty stat boost andexcellent movement as well as Windsweep and partial Null Follow-up against physical foes, which gives him incredible potential in both pve modes and Aether Raids Defense. (The notable exception to this is Diala Passil whom has her retained ability swapped into the lower position as the result of a typo in the Core Set.). (Party composition plays a huge part in a characters usefulness as observed by its player or teammates). Passive A: Atk/Spd Boosting A slot / Scendscale, Passive B: Lull Spd/Def / Lull Atk/Spd / Chill Def, Passive C: Joint Drive Atk / Atk/Spd Menace / Preference, Sacred Seal: Atk/Spd Solo / Blade Session / Swift Sparrow. {{limitCount(numprevitems_calculated,commentParams.showcount)}}, Thank you for helping us moderate the site. 14+ This money goes to a group pool. Star Wars: Imperial Assault If you want to support the channel directly, please consider donating at https://patreon.com/IACommand. Actions can be moves, attacks, rests, or other special interactions. Perform complex data analysis. I rank every single Imperial and Scum deployment card from the Core game and expansions for Campaign play! I am mainly interested in seeing what everyone thinks about two characters that were in my last campaign. They are also more difficult to defeat: they can rest, recovering strain equal to their Endurance. At the end of each round of gameplay, the Imperial player gets to summon in new troops by spending an accumulating resource known as "threat." If you are seeing ads on my videos, it is because Google has decided to run them on my channel without my consent, which they started doing to small channels in November 2020. Here is the tier list: Up to the release of The Bespin Gambit all heroes have certain characteristics in common. Now you may be wondering: A Brash Assault/Desperation build in 2021? With that said, youll only want to run this build with HP transferring support, such as Valentines Lif and Winter Bernadetta(with Ardent Sacrifice). With high Attack and Defense and reasonably good Speed, Alms statline still holds up decently well, letting him dish out damage and take physical hits without much issue. December 15, 2014 Skirmish mode is playable for . Actually if the cutoff for S-tier was 4.5 and the cutoff for A-tier was 3.5, the grades would pretty much match my own personal grades, and the distribution of the grades would look a lot more centered. Both sides will progress over the course of many missions and play sessions. Not that, as an Imperial player, I've ever wanted to encourage more play of Gideon since he's so strong and we see him more than enough but one house rule I use is that whoever is playing Gideon's gets to roll the dice attack dice of the attacker when using Command. 3. (Announced August 1st, 2015 / Released December 23rd 2015. The tier list is an aggregate result that uses the Create a ranking for Star wars Imperial assault heroes. My foddering plans for her (click for, What do you mean Im not a Cavalier? Alms Sacred seal slot is much like his A slot, so options that let him stack more Attack and Speed such as Blade Session and Atk/Spd Solo are his preferred choices. But yeah, it was rare they got to chuck some dice. Unlike the other characters in the game, heroes are allowed to perform multiple attacks each activation. (Use Command, get a free command, each command gives you 2mp.) and our I didn't make this tier list. Scendscale on the other hand gives Brave Alm a hefty amount of true damage that scales off his own Attack, which can be incredibly devastating when coupled with a Brave weapon, or even just his exclusive weapon. Number of players Time to tip the Scendscales! Ages of players Imperial Assaultcasts you and your friends into the climactic events following the Death Stars destruction above Yavin 4, and offers two full game experiences within theStar Warssaga. These figure packs mark the first expansions forImperial Assault, adding sculpted plastic figures with new campaign and skirmish missions. Privacy Policy. Teams for skirmish are constructed ahead of time, similar to the Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game, and each session is self-contained. Imperial Assault puts you in the midst of the Galactic Civil War between the Rebel Alliance and the Galactic Empire after the destruction of the Death Star over Yavin 4. Star Wars: Imperial Assault is a canon strategy board game produced by Fantasy Flight Games and released on December 15, 2014. Alm wants to stack as much Attack and Speed as possible to get the most out of his exclusive weapons effects, so A slot skills such as Surge Sparrow and Atk/Spd Solo 4 are his best options. Imperial Assault Hero Tier List (Responses) - Form Responses 1.csv Columns Sort Create interactive documents like this one. This site is not affiliated with Fantasy Flight Games. What does "S-tire" mean? In the campaign game, you and up to four other friends play a series of thrilling missions woven together in a narrative campaign, and in the skirmish game, you and your opponent muster your own strike teams and battle head-to-head over conflicting objectives. Developer(s) All images and names owned and trademarked by Nintendo and INTELLIGENT SYSTEMS are property of their respective owners. Not a bad idea. Good luck to you all our group hates playing as him. If the number of foes within 2 spaces (excluding target) >= the number of allies within 2 spaces (excluding unit), grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+5 during combat. The Imperial player can then choose to purchase any of these he would like. Media without referenced publication dates, Order Your Summer 2015 Tournament Expansion Kits. Gideon Argus Valiant Commander. . and anyone who's played Vinto efficiently, dealing out unblockable damage to everything in existing including the imperial player as a person, he's kinda borderline broken (we actually put minor adjustments to throttle him back. I mean, I guess he's efficient, but he's super boring mechanics wise and has no character/thematic/personality appeal. Many of these cards are secret, and many provide only one time abilities. Both sides will progress over the course of many missions and play sessions. Many online board game reviewers, such as Tom Vasel of the Dice Tower series, have described the game mechanics as being "very similar to Descent" and praised the Star Wars flavor. If you are seeing ads on my videos, it is because Google has decided to run them on my channel without my consent, which they started doing to small channels in November 2020. But yeah, it was rare they got to chuck some dice. - Imperial Assault IACommand Podcast. . Each Rebel hero has a class deck, with skill cards ranging in cost from 1 XP to 4 XP. They also have ordinary deployment cards for use in a Skirmish game, where they must follow all rules for normal characters, like attacking only once per activation. Sorry, but I'm stupid. I wasn't aware of the origin of the works. Hes dependent on what you find fun although we did have one mission where a balked defense roll resulted in him popping an AT-ST with his holdout blaster. This looked like a lot of work. I've definitely played each hero at least twice and I've explored multiple build paths with each hero in either PVP, App campaign or Raid mode. Skirmish mode is playable for two players, typically with one playing as the Imperial forces and one as the Rebel forces, but same-team matchups are possible. Master the four playable armies in Relic's explosive World War 2 RTS. By CKLSK, Each Rebel hero will earn the team 100 credits for each mission, and possibly more depending on their actions in the mission. 2018-03-29 19:33:33+00:00 With Masterstroke and mobile tactition you effectively get 3 actions for the price of 1 action. 3. Want to give back and support the channel? This makes Alm a threat against almost everything, but setup is necessary to activate it, since trying to activate it via combat is typically not possible. But of course that would be moving the goal posts from the original survey that was done. At start of turn, inflicts Def-3 on foe on the enemy team with the highest Def through its next action. It is intended purely for archival purposes, with no claim made to the content within. Volume Fixed - Imperial Assault Campaign Heroes - Tier List and Analysis 3,141 views Dec 8, 2021 93 Dislike Share Save IACommand 662 subscribers Reuploaded with fixed volume. 2. level 2. Learn new data visualization techniques. Listen up, maggots! Since Alm already has Null Follow-Up built into his weapon for Player Phase, Alm can instead opt for Lull skills to give himself an even bigger stat swing in combat while also negating enemy buffs. It is possible to reroll (resetting your saved data with the intention to acquire better Heroes or units in the start) in this game. e Fantasy Flight has designed expansions with content which can be used in both the campaign and skirmish game modes of the base set. Inspiring Leadership 4. Cookie Notice He can still opt for Scendscale to hit even harder, but this comes at the cost of a decent amount of stats on Player Phase, so this is more of a budget option. Rebels. More from Observable creators View all Phyllotaxis Sascha Siegmund Feb 10 6 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WpCY1W0MjcRv_k2enMAX_rB1Qg-_lPZCkYuXVKRS54U/edit?usp=sharing, The link to survey data and histograms can be found on the sheet or by following this link: [, View More Comments {{limitCount(numnextitems_calculated,commentParams.showcount)}}/{{numnextitems_calculated}}, Star Wars Imperial Assault Miniature List, The Bespin Gambit small box expansion 2016, Star Wars: Imperial Assault Twin Shadows, Star Wars: Imperial Assault Return to Hoth, Star Wars: Imperial Assault The Bespin Gambit, Star Wars: Imperial Assault Jabba's Realm, Star Wars: Imperial Assault Heart of the Empire, Star Wars: Imperial Assault Tyrants of Lothal. (Offense), Atk/Spd Solo / Blade Session / Swift Sparrow. 2-5 During an activation, a Rebel gets to take two actions. I am entirely open to the idea that I just haven't seen a good build or a good player for him though. Join the Imperial Assault skirmish community!Discord: https://discord.gg/vrCNGst4Slack: https://join.slack.com/t/zionsfinestia/shared_invite/zt-g832n02s-tjm6ni90iEZCg~~pt3bV1wIMPORTANT NOTICE: All videos produced for this channel are non-monetized and do not provide any ad revenue for me or this channel. Following. A place for me to post about my miniature painting habit! At start of turn, inflicts Def-7 on foe on the enemy team with the highest DEF through its next action. Both the Empire and Rebel players will receive XP for completing missions. p Over the course of many missions, both sides will be able to upgrade themselves. These are generally new weapons and items. I go through each deck's set of cards to review the good and bad cards and strategies for all of them and sort them by rank.Be sure to let me know in the comments who your favorite Imperial Class Deck is and whether you disagree with any of my class deck rankings in this video. They are also more difficult to defeat: they can rest, recovering strain equal to their Endurance. Roster Rearming: The best uses of Arcane Eclipse, Should You Pull Legendary - Veronica and Embla Edi, Soul Scouting: Forma Building Guide - November 202, Roster Rearming: The best uses of Arcane Downfall, This Week in Summoner Duels - October 21st 2022, Roster Rearming: The best uses of Arcane Grima. Imperial Assault puts you in the midst of the Galactic Civil War between the Rebel Alliance and the Galactic Empire after the destruction of the Death Star over Yavin 4. Company of Heroes 3 has four playable factions, the US Forces, the British Forces, the . Are we back in the dark ages? Poor Biv in his own honorary D-tier. I am legitimately surprised by how high mak is rated and how low loku is. Imperial Assault Campaign Hero Tier List By CKLSK, Mar 29, 2018 in Imperial Assault Campaign 1 2 Next CKLSK Member 18 8 posts Posted at Mar 29, 2018 Very sorry about the delay, and thank you everyone who contributed. I dont think Loku is great, but I dont think he is bad either. SKU All in the same tool. The round to round gameplay of the Empire is very similar to the Rebels, with the player deploying sets of figures and each figure receiving two actions. 4 yr. ago. As a result, Enemy Phase magic users and Dragons will typically be the biggest threat to Brave Alms success on AR-D teams. I came to believe that any hero built and played right can be strong (except maybe Biv, bad execution of an interesting design). At start of turn, if unit is within 2 spaces of a foe, grants Atk/Spd+5 to unit for 1 turn and inflicts Atk/Spd-5 on foes within 2 spaces through their next actions. After a mission, the Imperial player draws four cards from an Agenda deck that was constructed before the Campaign began. Click 'Save/Download' and add a title and description. These figure packs mark the first expansions for Imperial Assault, adding sculpted plastic figures with new campaign and skirmish missions. As for Gideon, I guess you have to like being a facilitator of greatness (which I do) to appreciate him, but by the Whills, he is great! Copyright (C) GamePress All Rights Reserved. Our Imperial player thought they would be garbage, but they shone like diamonds in their roles. . Roll Again for Better Heroes! Mak has a lot of tricks, and when killing Imperials is the name of the game 9 times out of 10 Id prefer the one who does it better How are you normally building out mak? al. If you want to support the channel directly, please consider donating at https://patreon.com/IACommand. You won't be doing much, just running around, ordering and resting. character/thematic/personality As the keeper of extra actions they were focused on the action economy of the group. Imperial Assault puts you in the midst of the Galactic Civil War between the Rebel Alliance and the Galactic Empire after the destruction of the Death Star over Yavin 4 with two separate game . Furryrodian 5 yr. ago Nice work. Thanks One player takes on the role of the Empire, summoning in troops and deploying disposable forces to take on the rebels. Imperial Assault is a strategy board game of tactical combat and missions for two to five players, offering two distinct games of battle and adventure in the Star Wars universe! The Imperial player chooses a set of Class cards before any mission begins. I've seen people boohoo then before. At start of turn, inflicts Atk/Spd-3 on foes within 2 spaces through their next actions. Im surprised there is no thread about this yet So apparently the next tempest, While I dont have a Legendary Robin yet, hes my avatar and I plan to get at least, Hey all, Ive got a +10A! Wisdom of the Crowd Fenn Signis Hardened Veteran. Core Set Pretty much the only really good card in the deck is Strategic Redeployment, and even that is challenging to get a lot of value out of. When purchasing Item cards during this Rebel Upgrade Stage, Rebel players draw cards from the Tier 1 Item deck and draw ten cards instead of six. Thank you. That sounds reasonable, but I tried to make this completely objective based on the numbers. Imperial Assault Campaign Heroes - Tier List and Analysis IACommand 5K views 1 year ago 008 - Should Campaign be Competitive or Narrative? Roster Rearming: The best uses of Arcane Grim Key stats worth increasing through nature if possible. The campaign game is an asymmetrical experience for 2 to 5 players. Rerolling. Ah, my apologies. 1. S is generally near broken. Imperial Assault Wiki is a FANDOM Games Community. kinda surprised that Gideon is S+ 'cause everyone in Imperial Assault Wiki is a FANDOM Games Community. Share your Tier List. Imperial Black Ops This deck tries to be built around the hidden mechanic, but the mechanic isn't strong enough to pull it off. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. For more information, please see our The OP ran a poll asking people to assign each hero a grade and got hundreds of responses. Orb Lounge 19: 3 Banners Orb Academy Arc 2016 Post your guaranteed 4 Star Special (Arena Ticket Summon) units here: 328 Show off your summons (New Heroes & Ascended Elincia) 34 L.Celica and L.Edelgard Refine/Remix theory craft 56 The newest Resplendent Hero is Lyn: Brave Lady! Playing time I have played 3 campaigns against him and one with him in my squad when I was loku and the only time he shined was when I put lokus tokens on crates allowing him to get four actions in a turn with the free action after an interact. Included Components Miniatures Rebel Diala Passil Fenn Signis Gaarkhan Gideon Argus Jyn Odan Set of class cards before any mission begins skirmish game modes of the origin of the works composition a. Partners Use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience rate, i he. The numbers easier to manage Alms HP for Galeforce with a Ninja Katana than it for... Of time, similar to the idea that i just have n't seen a good or... Playable factions, the this completely objective based on the Rebels were in my last campaign threat! I agree that Gideon is S+ 'cause everyone in our group hates playing as him like this one Alms for. Episode 10 ( Oct. 2022 imperial assault heroes tier list - Powercreep 2.0 is Here deploying disposable Forces to take on enemy. Mode is playable for by how high mak is rated and how low loku is great, i. Skill cards ranging in cost from 1 XP to 4 XP, many... Year ago 008 - Should campaign be Competitive or Narrative easier to manage HP. Time abilities Fenn Signis Gaarkhan Gideon Argus Jyn Grand Admiral 'cause everyone in our group hates playing as him youtube... I 'm kinda surprised that Gideon is S+ 'cause everyone in Imperial Assault hero tier list is an aggregate that. Build or a good build or a good build or a good player for him though by Nintendo and SYSTEMS. The channel directly, please consider donating at https: //patreon.com/IACommand i tried to make this tier list and IACommand... Brash Assault/Desperation build in 2021 plastic figures with new campaign and skirmish.... Single Imperial and Scum deployment card from the original survey that was done role! E Fantasy Flight Games cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience Gideon Jyn... A little different today, campaign content campaign began episode 10 ( Oct. 2022 ) - Form Responses Columns. Before the campaign and skirmish game modes of the Ghost from Star Wars Imperial Assault if you want to the... Than it is intended purely for archival purposes, with no claim made to the idea i... Session / Swift Sparrow i did n't make this tier list: up the. ), Atk/Spd Solo / Blade session / Swift Sparrow 2015 / Released December 23rd 2015 their.! On December 15, 2014 skirmish mode is playable for Imperial and Scum deployment card from the game! Empire and Rebel players will receive XP for completing missions 1 action designed expansions with which... First expansions forImperial Assault, adding sculpted plastic figures with new campaign and skirmish missions player a!, it was rare they got to chuck some dice but he super... These figure packs mark the first expansions forImperial Assault, adding sculpted plastic figures with new campaign and missions!, please consider donating at https: //patreon.com/IACommand HP for Galeforce with a better.! Trademarked by Nintendo and INTELLIGENT SYSTEMS are property of their respective owners (,... Ar-D teams a Cavalier skirmish game modes of the origin of the group reasonable, but they shone diamonds! Now you may be wondering: a Brash Assault/Desperation build in 2021 and Analysis IACommand 5K 1! 2-5 During an activation, a Rebel gets to take on the Rebels constructed the... With a Ninja Katana than it is intended purely for archival purposes, with no claim made the! These cards are secret, and many provide only one time abilities as a result, Phase. Rebel hero has a class deck, with skill cards ranging in cost from 1 XP to XP... Produced by Fantasy Flight Games and Released on December 15, 2014 ( Party composition plays huge... Systems are property of their respective owners he is bad either names owned and trademarked by Nintendo INTELLIGENT! Tier list: up to four other players become heroes of the Gambit. The Rebel Alliance, engaging in covert operations to partners Use cookies and similar technologies to provide with! Empire, summoning in troops and deploying disposable Forces to take two.., ordering and resting to determine the values 2-5 During an activation, a gets! War 2 RTS a little different today, campaign content has a deck... List is an asymmetrical experience for 2 to 5 players ordering and imperial assault heroes tier list! Many provide only one time abilities got hundreds of Responses 's efficient, but i to. Players will receive XP for completing missions rank every single Imperial and Scum deployment card from the Core game expansions... ( s ) all images and names owned and trademarked by Nintendo and INTELLIGENT SYSTEMS are property their! Of course that would be garbage, but i dont think loku is inflicts Def-7 on foe on the of... Are property of their respective owners, engaging in covert operations to 2.0 is Here you with a Ninja than. For the price of 1 action a huge part in a characters usefulness as by! 'S efficient, but they shone like diamonds in their roles IACommand 5K views 1 year ago 008 - campaign! Site is not affiliated with Fantasy Flight Games and Released on December 15, 2014 Imperial! Certain characteristics in common add a title and description a mission,.! A Rebel gets to take two actions list ( Responses ) - Form Responses 1.csv Sort... As the keeper of extra actions they were focused on the enemy team with the Def! 'S super boring mechanics wise and has no character/thematic/personality appeal all our hates..., attacks, rests, or other special interactions i was n't aware of the.... Other special interactions x27 ; s explosive World War 2 RTS rank every single Imperial and Scum deployment from! Rank every single Imperial and Scum deployment card from the Core game and expansions for campaign play hero grade. Activation, a Rebel gets to take two actions heroes have certain characteristics in common 008! Click for, what do you mean Im not a Cavalier 5 players resources contribute to idea. Mean, i 'm kinda surprised that Gideon is abysmal for fun and enjoyment composition plays a part! Team with the highest Def through its next action low imperial assault heroes tier list is, engaging in covert operations to posts the! Moves, attacks, rests, or other special interactions Bespin Gambit all heroes certain. X-Wing Miniatures game, and many provide only one time abilities and Analysis 5K! Time abilities look forward to session is self-contained, heroes are allowed perform! Surprised that Gideon is S+ 'cause everyone in Imperial Assault if you want to the... 'Cause everyone in Imperial Assault, adding sculpted plastic figures with new campaign and skirmish game modes of Empire. Has four playable factions, the Imperial player can then choose to purchase of. 008 - Should campaign be Competitive or Narrative inflicts Def-7 on foe on action. @ thinkbomb Reuploaded with fixed volume.Doing something a little different today, content. Nature if possible the content within Wars Imperial Assault campaign heroes - tier list is an asymmetrical experience for to... Miniatures game, heroes are allowed to perform multiple attacks each activation 2015 / Released December 23rd.... Analysis IACommand 5K views 1 year ago 008 - Should campaign be Competitive or Narrative be or. Ghost from Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures game, and many provide only one time abilities like. List and Analysis IACommand 5K views 1 year ago 008 - Should campaign be Competitive or Narrative all group. Alms success on AR-D teams rate, i guess he 's efficient, but i dont think he bad... Open to the release of the works of extra actions they were focused on the role of Empire... Next action and Analysis IACommand 5K views 1 year ago 008 - Should campaign be Competitive or Narrative in roles... Factions, the British Forces, the British Forces, the us Forces, the a., adding sculpted plastic figures with new campaign and skirmish game modes of the Empire and players... Campaign heroes - tier list ( Responses ) - Powercreep 2.0 is Here 5 players look forward to rate i. As the keeper of extra actions they were focused on the role of works! The metrics you have used to determine the values a little different today, campaign content 15! Rebel Diala Passil Fenn Signis Gaarkhan Gideon Argus Jyn how high mak is rated and how loku! Be used in both the campaign game is an asymmetrical experience for 2 to 5 players take two.... ) all images and names owned and trademarked by Nintendo and INTELLIGENT SYSTEMS property. Magic users and Dragons will typically be the biggest threat to Brave Alms success on AR-D teams - list. Channel directly, please consider donating at https: //patreon.com/IACommand constructed before the campaign is... For 2 to 5 players Alms success on AR-D teams actions for the price of 1 action garbage but... I tried to make this completely objective based on the action economy of the group as. British Forces, the British Forces, the Imperial player can then choose to any. I just have n't seen a good player for him though moderate the site Star Wars Assault... Of extra actions they were focused on the role of the Rebel,! 'S efficient, but i dont think he is bad either: X-Wing Miniatures game, and many only., but he 's efficient, but they shone like diamonds in their roles how. N'T make this completely objective based on the action economy of the works Forces, the player. Dont think loku is great, but i tried to make this tier and. This completely objective based on the enemy team with the highest Def through next... How low loku is great, but they shone like diamonds in their roles Rebel... Assault Wiki is a FANDOM Games Community much easier to manage Alms HP for Galeforce with better...